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Post by soundmanjim on Sept 20, 2007 14:14:12 GMT 1
 afternnoon all home on a days break from the scroobius pip vs dan le sac tour - and all is going well. However, i am beginning to see the limitations of the sm58 mike (brand new) that i bought for scroob to use in his set. Although it's a great, durable mike, i'm concerned that it's lacking a certain sparkle. As scroob has quite a low register in his voice, and as he does quite a bit of spoken word poetry during his set, i was wondering if you lot could suggest something a bit more suited to his act? In some venues his voice was often lost over the deep sub bass that comes from dan's laptop track (its split into 6 seperate tracks which i control at foh) and although i can reduce it to let scroob through, i lose a bit of the overall thump of the set. Perhaps i should be looking at an sm86, or an AKG mike? what would you guys suggest? cheers (and pics of the gigs coming soon!)
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shepz
Senior Engineer
Posts: 135
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Post by shepz on Sept 20, 2007 14:15:19 GMT 1
beta 58a would be the first thing to pop to my mind jim
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Post by soundmanjim on Sept 20, 2007 14:18:31 GMT 1
Hmmm - the general consensus of opinion is the 58 beta is even thinner in sound than the 58! Tried a 57 beta which was a bit better but still lacking something.
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Post by John Bell on Sept 20, 2007 15:00:26 GMT 1
Hi Jim, I use Beta 58's and they have a more clear top end and presence than the standard SM58 and maybe that's why some think the sound is thinner than the close proximity boost only of the original.
Like all Shure mics, they take a lot of rough handling and won't let you down.
The drummers at the Cliffe Music Fest liked my Beta 56's on the toms and Beta 57 on the snare and Beta 52 in the kick. They are so solid and sound great. They look hard and play hard, just like the drummers.
John.
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Post by sw2407 on Sept 20, 2007 17:07:12 GMT 1
I used Beta 58's for the first time this summer - much better than the old SM 58s. I'm getting a loan of one this weekend to try with a female vocalist with quite a "thin" voice. Hope it lifts her vocals better than the Sm58 she is currently using. I spoke to one of the Harmon guys at Plasa and he reckoned the AGK D5 was worth a try - and it won't break the bank either!
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Post by John Bell on Sept 21, 2007 7:29:46 GMT 1
Hi Steven, I found that one of the female vocalists I work with, benefited from a little chorus on her thin but powerful vocals, with a slight boost in the lower range. This thickened the sound, without being obtrusive.
She used to have her own favorite warm sounding mike, which must have been a copy, as it picked up RFI and easily fed back. The difference with the Beta 58 was amazing and she uses one all the time now.
John.
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Simon Ryder
Boss
Bringing out the best through sound
Posts: 212
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Post by Simon Ryder on Sept 22, 2007 12:24:47 GMT 1
There are plenty of better vocal mics out there than the SM58s. When I say better, all mics have their own characteristics and will either work or not with a given singer.
Sure SM58 - the standard, we all know and love. You can even use it as a hammer.
Sure B58 - 3dB louder than the standard, handles feedback better, slightly more coloured sound. It has a tighter pick up pattern which makes the proximity effect more pronounced.
Sennheiser e835- Cleaner sound than the 58s needs more careful feedback management - is my current bog standard mic of choice.
Sennheiser e945 - superb sounding mic - B58 is slightly more feedback resistant (and feeds back at different points). Warmer, more accurate sound than the Sure dynamics.
Audix OM5 - Has a presence peak similar to a 58 with better overall resolution and feedback rejection.
Audix OM6 - Gain for days on this one. Superbly transparent sounding and boy can you get it loud in the monitors. Great low end and low mid resolution with this one. Your singer needs good microphone technique though.
Audix OM7 - Only works if your singer "eats" the mic - incredible amounts of GBF, superb sound. Very low output, so needs to be partnered by a decent mic pre.
Beyer M69TG - A sleaper. Great microphone, good GBF, clean and IMHO eats the Sure dynamics for breakfast.
Beyer M88TG - Without doubt one of the best vocal dynamics made. If you can afford it, try one.
AKG D5 - haven't tried one yet., but reports are very favourable. Give one a try.
My personal mic choices:
Sennheiser e835 - I use these for backing vocals etc instead of 58s Godd on both men and women
Beyer M69 - backing vocal, trumpet, e guitar, has mostly replaced 57s on my stages. Great on female voices
Audix OM6 - Lead vocal - if it works with the singer. Graet on both males and females.
Beyer M88 - Incredible on male voice - I just need to trust the singer not to drop it or swing the mic cable.
Sure Bet58 - Drummer vocals - seems to work well in this applicaton - or if someone really insists on using one. Other times are when I know the mics are ikely to take a beating.
Caveat on Sennheiser quality:
one of my e835s survived Pete Doherty trying to use it as a hammer to bash pin spots off the ceiling with only a slight dent in the grill. Still works perfectly.
Just a thought Jim,
just realised that your guy is a poet. Singing vocal mics are seldom the best choice for spoken word.
Try a beyer M201 with a windshield on him
Also try the Audix OM6.
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Post by soundmanjim on Sept 22, 2007 16:01:12 GMT 1
cheers all for the input.
yes you're right Simon, he does a lot of spoken word, but it still has to cut through the row from Dan's Mac - i'm hearing nice things about the D5 in TOTAL PRODUCTION magazine, and have had a few others recommend.
As he does quite a bit of moving about, it does need to have pretty good feedback rejection and he does have a habit of poking the mike out into the audience for the 'boom boom's in 'beat that my heart skipped', so i will be taking that into consideration. i suppose i could borrow a selection and try them out i suppose.
While were about it, i have a gig at SCALA next week and I'm hearing it's a bit 'churchy' in there for acoustics; will i have to re-do the FOH grafix for this gig or do the guys there have it pretty much set up for optimum?
cheers
jim
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Simon Ryder
Boss
Bringing out the best through sound
Posts: 212
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Post by Simon Ryder on Sept 24, 2007 0:06:47 GMT 1
Definitely give the OM6 a try.
The Scala is not my favourite venue to mix.
George is a nice guy and helpful.
Desk is a Midas Verona
PA is Turbo Flood.
I'm just not particularly into the way that that system works in that room in that setup. Very boomy bass with little definition. You'll find that there is only so far you can go to tune it with the graphics.
Monitors are via a separate console on side of stage. An Allen & Grief I believe.
FOH position is in a box in a cage about 14 foot above the dancefloor and out of the main HF coverage of the PA. Headphones are a good way to go.
Have fun.
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Rick Sarson
Senior Engineer
In search of fidelity
Posts: 106
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Post by Rick Sarson on Sept 24, 2007 12:54:31 GMT 1
As a slightly different approach you could try a Rode NT3? www.turnkey.co.uk/web/productAction.do?dispatch=showProduct&SKU=RODE-NT3&context=WEB I have used them with success on voice over work. They are hyper cardioid, so your artist needs to bear that in mind. I would use a second pop shield on top of the first as they are little prone to popping. Not sure how well it would survive on the road, the manufacturer says it is tough, but then they would, wouldn't they? |
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Post by muppet on Sept 24, 2007 20:30:52 GMT 1
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Post by soundmanjim on Oct 1, 2007 16:06:34 GMT 1
Phew. all done, just got back.
We actually tried an E945 at CWB IFOR BACH and it was tremendous - PIP really liked it, and it was nice for him to hold, and seemed to reject feedback nicely. The only downside was the fact that it didn't come out of the mike clip easily when he changed stands, but thats really a piffling detail - it was nice and clear and the definition was perfect for his voice, so i reckon he will ned up buying one.
meantime, we did get to try a beta 58 and it surprised me; it WAS actually a bit louder than the usual 58 and seemed clearer, but wasn't as defined in the lower registers as the 945.
Tried some EV mikes at the MET bar last night but wasn't over-keen - although they did a sterling job with the other two bands with minimal feedback.
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Post by soundmanjim on Oct 30, 2007 1:32:43 GMT 1
update - Simon and i got a couple of D5's to test and i can honestly say we are very happy with them so far. Certainly give scroob quite a bit more headroom in the mix than we had before - but it still wasnt as funky sounding as the 945 imho, but im thinking we are going to stick with the AKG as it looks quite sexy. (lol I'm sold on looks!)
KOKO this Friday so we will give it a good go there - unless the venue has a 945 that is.
EDIT+++i have also been told of MILAB mikes - particularly the D37 - anyone used these?
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