making new full new PA

[Phil]

Hi people,
I'm making a new PA - 2 bins 2 mid tops.
I'm getting the plans from speakerplans.com using x1's and x15's.
The cabs are no problem but its the speakers I would like some opinions on. I am going for something affordable.

I want it to be able to easily do a small venue with nice bass throw. And the speakers have to have a nice sound - i would just get annoyed if i couldnt get a crisp sound.

Heres what I am looking at:

mid-tops - 8 ohm £70 ish per driver - comp drivers sorted
what goes better 12s or 15s?
Eminence Kappa 12s - 450 rms 40 hz - 4khz
Eminence Kappa 15LF - same as bins


Bins - need 8 ohm no more than £90 per driver
Eminence Kappa 15 LF - £75/80 - 35hz - 3Khz - 600wrms
P-Audio C15-400B 15 inch bass driver - £85 - 30hz - 3khz - 400wrms

[shepz]

Whatever you wish - Just make sure you use the exact speakers the speaker plans tell you to.
The cabs would have been built around the drivers.

[muppet]

From your list I would probably look at one of the eminence drivers just purely because its quite a big brand name and the only one I recognise in your list. Other manufacturers you could look into are Precision Devices (loaded, or at least used to be loaded, into turbosound boxes. JBL and RCF, all of these are major manufacturers.

Most pro boxes have 12" drivers, since most are active multiway systems it affords more clarity to the mids. 15" drivers due to the larger surface area tend to end up more in full range boxes. since you are building a multiway system i wouldnt worry too much about how low you mids go as you would probably not cross them over any greater than 120hz anyway. Subs you are looking at a minimum of 15” but 18” is better, I wouldn’t bother with a 21”, crank those up and your audience will end up crapping themselves! In terms of power I would say you need to look at something like 300w – 400w for your top boxes and around 1200w for your subs

Shepz does also have a good point above, you need to make sure the driver is suitable to use with what ever design you are opting for, although of course its not particularly difficult to modify a design.

[Simon Ryder]

P-Audio make some superb drivers. However like all speaker manufacturers some of their drivers are better than others.

Also look at:
Fane
Beyma
RCF
B&C

and whilst your at it, have a chat to Ian at Nightfire: www.pa-direct.co.uk - great chap and very helpful.

S

[gingerbiscuit69]

ive owned/used every speaker on the speakerplans website. the recommended driver seriously makes A LOT of difference.

The X1 + X15 combo is great, crossover at 80hz and it provides a nice balance of subbass down to 30hz, low kick from the X1 and punchy kick from the X15 15" driver and a general good all round sounding rig. My X1's are SD18 loaded, and with 750w rms per driver they really sing.

But i cannot stress enough, getting the right drivers, driven correctly with enough power on the right frequencys is essential, or you may as well go straight with skytech and save your time!

another big flaw in your plan, the X1 is 18" so using a kappa15lf is A) not gona fit and B) blow itself to shreds. Bandpass are very driver unfriendly hence u need a well matched one not overdriven.

that rig will easily cover a small venue, and provide a great sound for the money. Of course it isnt gona be comparable to a top of the range cab, but d**n close for no money!


thats half of mine...

[muppet]

wow, looks pretty cool for a DIY system. Might look a little cooler if you paint it the same colour though lol

[gingerbiscuit69]

DIY rigs are just as good as big brand, long as the design is right, construction is quality and correctly loaded, i see no difference. nothing worse than the 'i got turbosound so it must be wicked' types, do my head right in!!

[muppet]

of course you are quite right, there are three things that make a good box. thats design, components and joinery. Since most speakers all use the same or very similar designs, there is only so much you can do to a cab after all, there should not be a problem there. Of course like the big manufacturers you can obtain just about any driver yourself which means the biggest thing that will make a difference is how well you put it together, which completely depends upon you. there are of course a few exceptions where most of the design has gone into a dedicated driver rather than the actual box like the vertec for example. The biggest drawback to a DIY system is they are not very rider friendly in that even if engineers dont spec the system they will still expect to see a branded PA

[muppet]

...Btw, just for the record ive never been a huge fan of Turbosound! lol

[gingerbiscuit69]

very true, i see the merrits of a branded system.

however, i am only in the local market supplying bands im engineering myself, and self promoted nights. I am by no means a person to be hired for a large pro tour ect... There is absolutely no advantage in me spending 10 times more for something branded when its all about reputation. For me this has worked out well, i am known for large loud and clear systems, and am the only person in the area who can do bigger than 5k, and hornloaded rigs.

If i were ever lucky enough to get to level where i was doing pro nights with big (or some kind of) names, then I would invest in some nice function1 gear, those res5 midtops are beyond amazing!

so yeah, do what you can to suit your needs, when people ask me for the brands and not the system and sound they have heard/heard of and want, they are welcome to pay for that.

its up to the person and need, i despise people looking down on me for using a DIY system (not saying u are btw). For me its all reputation about the result, not the means.

[muppet]

you are absolutley right, the only thing really important in PA is that the sound is right, after all the audience wont know d&b from JBL. just out of curiosty how much did it cost to make that system?

[gingerbiscuit69]

the one pictured, umm will type n add cos i really have never worked it out.

X1's are loaded with 4x PAudio SD18's = £800 (2.8kw of sub bass!)
186's are loaded 2x PD186's = £360
mids are loaded with 4x old 12" fanes = £200 on ebay
comps are 2x RCF 2" N980 labs = £200 a pair roughly on ebay
comp flairs are 2x PAudio PH4530 = £75

so thats £1635 in drivers.

then used 12 8x4ft sheets of 18mm MDF, whick is £20 a sheet at a local trade place = £240

hardware such as 4pin neutriks, and glue n screws was probs about £50

paint was £70 (all pro black textured stuff now like the top one)

grand total for two stacks = £1995 (10k RMS of quality sounding long and low throw rig)

[muppet]

cool, 2 grand for a complete system and i bet it kicks the pants of all that peavey nutse you see in alot of venues!

[gingerbiscuit69]

kicks the pants out many systems ive heard, costing loads more!

[muppet]

lol, loving the edit! what is a nutse anyhow?