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Post by soundmanjim on Nov 6, 2005 20:49:43 GMT 1
ok.
if we book a band at our club and no contract was signed; can they still press for the cash?
had a band here the other night; we had a bit of a poor turnout (we had to bump the door price up to cover the extra cost of rider, berr, vodka, pizza AND band cost, think it put people off) to £6 instead of our usual £4.
End of night, we didnt have enough hard cash left over to pay the band, which in turn went down like a cup of cold sick. (we were only £200 short, 170 people turned up, our security firm charge us £300 a night, you do the math).
Much ado, then band and associated hangers on desisted in their moaning and left in good spirits (after all the agg).
were only a small club; how can we avoid this happening again? it was a good gig - dont get me wrong - and i'd have them back but the whole thing made me feel very down. what do you guys (and gals) reckon?
we have decided to let promoters hire us instead of us trying to organise these slightly 'bigger' gigs; is this the best way?
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Dan Gruner Loud Events
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Post by Dan Gruner Loud Events on Nov 7, 2005 14:03:49 GMT 1
Do not forget that a verbal contract is still binding, although as you will appreciate, it is much harder to secure anything on it being that nothing is down on paper. To answer your question - yes they can and should still press for the cash. Unless of course in this case, you had an agreement with the band that there money would depend on your door takings. To be blunt and honest with you and speaking from a sound services providers perspective also, you should not moan at having to pay people the money they deserve just because you have failed in your business planning - THIS IS THE RISK THAT YOU TAKE ON BEING A PROMOTER/ORGANISER. The security firm insisted on their £300 (and got it I expect!) so why shouldn’t the band get their share??? I will omit to you that I get more than a little annoyed when band promoters/organisers try it on with me by effectively saying "we had poor door takings tonight, so do you mind awfully loosing money as I can only pay £xxx amount, see you next week" Fair enough, if you and the band had an informal agreement, which sometimes does happen with up-and-coming groups, then it is up to both of you to "thrash a deal out” But whatever arrangements you make, GET SOMETHING IN WRITING - that way you are covering your own back... To answer your question on how you can avoid this happening again? Sort your marketing and advertising out! At the end of the day, you need to get more bodies through the club doors!!! I'm sure it was a good gig, but the economics of doing it have to add up.... I think it is a good idea to let a promoter handle your bigger events as long as they are reputable and know what they are doing - there are plenty of so called "promoters" out there that don't have a clue. Again, with promoters - GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, their terms and conditions, what commission they will take etc... Just my £0.02’s worth! May I wish you good luck for the future. Please contact me anytime if I can be of assistance.  Dan Gruner LOUD EVENTS Live sound and entertainment technology services Hire, engineering, installation Tel/FAX 01749 813132 Mobile: 07811 961637 |
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Post by John Bell on Nov 7, 2005 19:42:18 GMT 1
Hi Jim, when my band and the others that I provide and engineer the sound and lighting for, used to perform at the Rayners, we agreed with the promoters, the percentage of the door takings and the door price, prior to each gig. The promoters did their bit by sending out e-mail flyers/gig lists to their regulars and made posters for the venue, from photos that we provided. The bands did their bit, by informing their following. As up and coming small amateur bands, with no management, we did not have written contracts. We were just pleased to be able to perform at this venue, where some of our favorite, top tribute bands, also perform. See www.feenstra.co.uk and have a look at how they promote gigs at their venues. |
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Post by soundmanjim on Nov 8, 2005 2:27:51 GMT 1
Hi Dan
Thanks very much for that input; i hadnt really though of it like that.
As we are not a 'proper' venue, (we are actually a non profit making organisation under the wing of the local working mens club) its hard to run it like a proper buisness if you see what i mean.
I will be drawing up some sort of written agreement that we can work to; i dont like messing people about as the whole reason we started the club was to give local unsigned bands somewhere to play;(both my mate who booked them and i are both in bands) and both my friend and i decided to start booking the bigger bands to give the local bands a bit of extra exposure (which has worked very well).
i think we bit off a bit more than we could chew doing a semi-well known band.
Hayseed dixie were ok as we sold the tickets in advance for that one so the money was there; and we have got a promoter in to organise the next two bigger gigs, sultans of Ping and the Beat; i think this is probably the best way to go.
again thanks for the replies guys, its a steady learning curve for us!!!
I will just say in closing that being threatened to be 'turned over' by the roadies was a bit worrying!
cheerio
jimbo
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Post by mic mk on Nov 8, 2005 16:07:00 GMT 1
Well if you are short of the folded stuff[cash] you could always sell me the gb4 and go back to the behringer.
Anyway what were coldplay like?
Actually I do need a decent desk[gb4/8/mh2/midas venice 240/320/a&h 2400/2800/even a mix wiz 3].
Anybody
markthesoundengineer@yahoo.co.uk
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Simon Ryder
Boss
Bringing out the best through sound
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Post by Simon Ryder on Nov 8, 2005 17:48:20 GMT 1
I second the power of a verbal contract. Failure to live up to any contract whether written or verbal leaves you liable not just for the amount of the contract but also compensation for breach of contract. Always get everything in writing it really is necessary. I do not provide a PA to anywhere or do an installation or even turn up as an engineer without a contract protecting both me and my client. Only one notable exception to this rule have I made recently (due to being too ludicrously busy to send out the contract) and... you guessed it, I am now negotiating for breach of verbal contract, though the client is proving very amiable and easy to deal with, so I am lucky there. So always get it in writing. Rgegards, Simon |
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Post by soundmanjim on Nov 8, 2005 20:48:56 GMT 1
mic mk, you've got no chance, i love our gb4, its beautiful!! do you the mx9000 for 50p (hargh!) coldplay? whats that about then?
thanks for your comments simon by the way. all good info.
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Post by mc mk on Nov 8, 2005 23:11:38 GMT 1
The reference to "coldplay" was supposed to infer comedically that the band[chris martin's] played at the "fat slurper" and had been payed £400 in cash or not[dependent on takings]
Next week Elvis gets paid in booze/drugs and cheeseburgers.
Am doing a gig on friday at the Corn Hall Cirencester and have been warned about how bad[aledgedly] every aspect of the venue is- unhelpful staff/load in and out at wrong door/neighbours threatening police action/no lights/craft fair overruns into soundcheck/stage assembled during soundcheck/promoter chasing for months for pre-ticket sales from box office/ten minutes to load out
Seems like a normal gig then
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Post by soundmanjim on Nov 9, 2005 6:31:36 GMT 1
hah! dont you just love it when people tell you that before the gig? really puts you in the right frame of mind (chortle).
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Post by mic mk on Nov 9, 2005 23:06:21 GMT 1
that all dancing/boxing fox is putting me off my porridge
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Post by Apollo on Dec 16, 2005 16:23:32 GMT 1
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