tour bus and engineer available

[soundmanjim]

Just to let you guys know, i have an IVECO XLWB turbo daily, 1998, with a crew seating area for 6 people, incorporating dvd screens and soundsystem, with large loadspace in the rear. Enough room for a whole bands gear and band members (plus groupies)

If anyone needs transport to a gig give me a shout if you get stuck.

I am based in Essex but i can travel if the money's right.

i can even do airport runs if you need them.

[soundmanjim]

UPDATE

The bus has now been re-built, and now has two bunks, 17" widescreen lcd, ps2, cooker, fridge, seats for six excluding driver, running lights, interior LED luminaires, mirrors, and enough room to stack a drumkit and three amps plus guitars etc.

Im currently offering my services from May onwards at a rate of (ENQUIRE WITHIN) per mile, mileages agreed on and sourced from google maps beforehand, and paid upfront.
If you want me to engineer, thats extra, POA, which i am happy to do!

[John Bell]

Nice rig Jim.
Before my band splits, we must have at least one "lookshoory" gig and travel in style.
I will get my roadie to drive my "truck" with all of our back-line, PA & stage lighting and we will have one day to revel in rock-star comfort.
John.

[soundmanjim]

Lol. Brilliant.
I am actually thinking of getting shot of it, its a nice van but i want something more modern, like an Optare mini-coach or mebbe a nice sprinter minibus - but the prices are still mega.
Just spent all day covered in Crap swapping the now siezed starter motor - you wouldnt believe how awkward it is to get out - i had to remove the exhaust, water pipes and alternator, still a bum to get to.
No probs with the gig, if you decide to do it let me know in plenty of time and i'll book up the dancing girls!

[robertnisbet]

Hi Jim,

Just some thoughts on this you may like to consider. Not a criticism, more that I don't want to see a fellow sound man shooting themselves in the foot...

Consider fuel for a moment. I would suggest that a van of that type (not dissimilar to my own) probably uses approx 14p per mile of diesel. So, that leaves you 6p up per mile. Now, insurance, say £400 per year, road tax £180 per year, and MOT around £50, probs a bit more coz I guess thats a class 7 MOT. So, thats £630 a year in fixed costs. At 6p per mile, you need to cover 10,500 to cover your basic direct fixed and variable costs on this. And thats even without mechanics bills, parts, etc.

Now assume that you are cruising at 60mph. So, 60 miles @ 6p per mile in an hour - thats £3.60 - less than minimum wage. So, once you've covered your first 10,500, you are then paying yourself £3.60 per hour. But, I know you have a PA business. So, presumably you have somewhere to store all this is, maybe some loan repayments or credit card repayments, a solicitor, an accountant. I know my business costs me approx £40 per day in fixed costs, even before I have got out of bed. Lets adjust his back down to £36 per day, to make the maths easy: At £3.60 per hour, I would have to be driving a 10 hour day, just to cover my business's fixed costs. After this, you then maybe begin to make a profit.

So, you need to do 10,500 miles minimum, to cover the costs involved in running that vehicle. Then, you need to drive a 10 hour day at a constant 60mph to cover the rest of the costs of your business. I realise that a lot of clients will pay you to engineer them as well, and I guess thats what you're counting on, but generally in industry its assumed that a vehicle costs approx 40p per mile to run. Do you really want the money you're earning from engineering to only be going towards the running of the vehicle?

So, I would suggest that maybe you're pitching yourself too cheap. For the record, I would probably charge 40p per mile for fuel, an absolute minimum of £12.50 per hour for me as a driver (or maybe a day rate between £100-£200), and probably £50 per day/£150 per week for the hire of the van. Bare in mind if a band want to hire a van from a hire company its likely to be £65-90 a day for an 8-seat splitter, plus fuel, and one of them (or a hapless mate!) has to drive.

I mostly did this as an exercise for myself - helping me realise what it costs to keep my two vehicles on the road. But I hope it helps you too. Food for thought.

[soundmanjim]

Hi Robert ;D thanks for the input.

I agree, my rates are bit low - but i don't get any work at all otherwise!

Mainly due to the fact that I'm not a big company, just an owner driver.

I'll address your message thusly.

Just some thoughts on this you may like to consider. Not a criticism, more that I don't want to see a fellow sound man shooting themselves in the foot...

no worries!

Consider fuel for a moment. I would suggest that a van of that type (not dissimilar to my own) probably uses approx 14p per mile of diesel. So, that leaves you 6p up per mile.

the van is currently using up approx 19p per mile; so I'm actually only up 1p. LOL.

Now, insurance, say £400 per year,

NOT EVEN CLOSE. I've got points on my licence and its more like £900 - however, i don't pay that - it was paid for me by kind donation from relative, as was the road tax.

road tax £180 per year, and MOT around £50, (paid by relative who isn't short of a few bob)

my mot was closer to £100, 50 for the mot and 50 for the guy to drive it to the mot and back!!

probs a bit more coz I guess thats a class 7 MOT.

yes i think it is.

My fixed costs are therefore £1180!!

So, thats £630 a year in fixed costs. At 6p per mile, you need to cover 10,500 to cover your basic direct fixed and variable costs on this. And thats even without mechanics bills, parts, etc.

Not even going to reach that - the van has so far done 8,000 miles since i bought it - and most of that was on the road with Dan and scroob.

Now assume that you are cruising at 60mph. So, 60 miles @ 6p per mile in an hour - thats £3.60 - less than minimum wage. So, once you've covered your first 10,500, you are then paying yourself £3.60 per hour. But, I know you have a PA business.

No i don't essentially. Simon is my chum and we work together, but i take a cut of any jobs we work on, he looks after the business, the unit rental, vat etc etc. Nothing to do with me.

all other cash he makes is with on line sales of pa gear.

So, presumably you have somewhere to store all this is, maybe some loan repayments or credit card repayments, a solicitor, an accountant. I know my business costs me approx £40 per day in fixed costs, even before I have got out of bed. Lets adjust his back down to £36 per day, to make the maths easy: At £3.60 per hour, I would have to be driving a 10 hour day, just to cover my business's fixed costs. After this, you then maybe begin to make a profit.

So, you need to do 10,500 miles minimum, to cover the costs involved in running that vehicle. Then, you need to drive a 10 hour day at a constant 60mph to cover the rest of the costs of your business. I realize that a lot of clients will pay you to engineer them as well, and I guess thats what you're counting on, but generally in industry its assumed that a vehicle costs approx 40p per mile to run. Do you really want the money you're earning from engineering to only be going toward the running of the vehicle?

So, I would suggest that maybe you're pitching yourself too cheap. For the record, I would probably charge 40p per mile for fuel, an absolute minimum of £12.50 per hour for me as a driver (or maybe a day rate between £100-£200), and probably £50 per day/£150 per week for the hire of the van. Bare in mind if a band want to hire a van from a hire company its likely to be £65-90 a day for an 8-seat splitter, plus fuel, and one of them (or a hapless mate!) has to drive.

I mostly did this as an exercise for myself - helping me realize what it costs to keep my two vehicles on the road. But I hope it helps you too. Food for thought.

All received and understood there.

Simply, i don't have much outgoings myself - my mortgage is paid, my wife works from home and has a very good job as an accountant (so i save there as she does my accounts); my relative has covered my van expenses for the foreseeable future and i personally don't have any credit cards (the wife has seen to that) or any debts at all.

So really, I'm doing it to get my foot in the door, and its worked. Sure, I'm not making much money (if at all) but the doors that have opened recently just by knocking myself out for nothing are gradually paying off.

For instance, i ferried a band to Manchester and back from Cambridge and just covered my fuel costs because they were in a jam and someone had recommended me; through this Ive earned about 4 more jobs at a much higher rate.

The van is paid for out of my own cash, i do all my own servicing and its the only thing i do - i have no other outgoings, apart from the occasional trip to the boozer.

I haven't had a 9-5 job in four years, and have no intention of starting. I haven't worked due to a bad motorcycle accident and now sleep rather badly! (hence me being on line at all times of the day and night)

My wife looks after everything else with her cash and a cut of whatever i make helping Simon or doing stuff on my own. If someone needs a system, i take the gear and give Simon the smaller cut - and if he goes out with it and i help, i take the smaller cut - it all works out just nicely.

So, if you go back over my actual costs, how much do you reckon i would need to charge to make a bit more dosh? I'm interested to know as

A/ I'm totally rubbish at anything to do with numbers
B/ I'm interested to see if the rate we end up with will be more than say hiring a van from someone like Matt snowball.

The bus itself will be going up for sale after the next tour as i want something a bit newer (and something that the wife and i can still use to go away for long weekends camping, like we do in this tour bus) and although its a sturdy beast, a little noisy and I'd like something a bit quieter to drive.

Lastly - another thing to note is that Dan and Scroob are personal fiorends of mine and we have an agreement on prices - i gave them a rate i wanted and they give me everything else, free food, hotels, beer, etc etc plus all the hobnobbing and celeb events i dont have to pay to get into - esp festivals, so thats my deal there. I drive them and do their sound for a rate im happy with and they supply me with the stuff i like, Food for example. LOL.

thoughts, etc? (lol Nathan barley sketch)

[loudevents]

Hi Jim,

Like the bus, think you've done a good job there!

I'd like to just make a few points based on other people's replay's. PLEASE don't undercharge for your services. You as a skilled professional like myself deserve to earn a decent living and its frightening what you are left over with once you have taken all the overhead costs out!

I understand that your overheads are low - ie the mortgage has been paid, the wife's in a good job etc, you don't have any debts etc. However other companies such as myself are not in such a fortunate position and have a huge overhead burden that needs to be paid for. People who undercharge don't do themselves or the industry any favors and its just gets harder for all of us just to cover the basics, let alone try and make a living!

I think your rate of 20p per mile is FAR to cheap - my usual rate is 70p a mile to cover fuel, wear and tear, vehicle hire, insurance etc, but not including labor. With the price of fuel and other expenses, you must be loosing money surly?

I'm not meaning to have a go at you, but I do get very frustrated when I put a sensible quote in for sound, light services etc and someone comes along, who's clearly running his "business" as a hobby and charges way below market rates - usually putting in substandard equipment and offering a substandard service also (I've seen it all believe me).

Good luck for the future.

Dan

LOUD EVENTS

[soundmanjim]

Hello Dan

all recieved and understood.

i have actually raised my prices in the past few weeks as it has become clear that ends were not being met.

I have to say that my services are FAR from substandard (and i know that you have well seen the poorest of situations) BUT i'm really only doing LAST MINUTE GIGS - i have no intention of chipping off anyone elses jobs - my work mainly is with the band i tour with - and as they are mates - im happy to help.

I'm sure you will appreciate that you sometimes have to speculate to accumulate - and as i do a good job and attend to the bands i work with 100% - i get a lot of re-bookings.

Its a hobby. theres NO WAY im going to impinge on anyones buisness - not with my old bus anyway - but as im a driver/engineer/load lugger, the bands i mainly do are UNSIGNED and therefore short on cash - as im keen and ready to help, thats what i mainly do, never with big acts so not treading on anyones toes.

your comments are digested and taken on board - but please realise that what i do as a one man operation is simply for my love of live music. Im never going to be 'beat the street' thats for sure!!

If my work opens doors for me (and by open doors i mean get me in with a larger company doing the work i love and enjoy) then i'll do whatever it takes to get there.

gis a job?

lol.

anyway, if it makes any difference, i will be removing the post previously becuase its obvious im a bit of a numpty when it comes to money.

i have been scalded in the past for doing pa jobs under the going rate before - so im not suprised you made that comment, i'm just looking to help out local bands and unsigned acts - i'm not looking to undercut or piss anyone off.

feel free to contact me direct ([e-mail]) if you want to speak further on the subject, but we all have to start somwhere, and this website is doing just that - helping people like myself sort their jobs out, get the contacts and move within the industry.

lastly - i have to say that i NEVER supply sub-standard equipment to ANY GIG - i have a share in a really nice 30kw rig, proper outboard and digital gear, and never leave the desk wherever i am pa'ing.

Nuff said. thanks for the comments.

[Simon Ryder]

All power to you Jim, just at least make it take care of itself.

In the old days I would mix EVERY show that came my way. Originally for free, then for bar bill then for cash, then more cash until I get to now. My advice to anyone starting is always the same: mix every show you can. Sort out your bread and butter then get out there and do it. Once you have mixed long enough people will pay top dollar for you.

Does it worry me that some people charge considerably less? No. In my current home town there is a guy who will rent out himself + 1 crew, 4 Turbo TMS 4sand 4 218 subs, 4 way mon mix etc and if you really beat him down you can get him for £250. Not being funny I charge >£200 just for me or one of my other engineers and NO kit!

Fortunately there is only one of him and a lot more gigs going on. Anytime he has to cross rent he is REALLY screwed as no-one else will let their kit go out for so little. To the point where he had to cancel a gig totally, last year, at last minute. He found that a £320 fee for a 3 day hire of 4 premium wedges + amps was more than he was charging for the entire gig including an engineer!

Bottom line is: "Charge what you are worth!" Are you really worth £50 and a few drinks or do you work your nuts off, turn up on time and do whatever it takes to make the show happen soothly?

[soundmanjim]

no not really. but i only do it one or two times. Doors open (ie opportunities occur), the price goes up, job's a goodun.
anyway i dont give a s*** about this right now as ive just prepped dan and scroob for the uk tour and im STOKED about it - the rehearsal went brilliant today (we are using a tv camera, furniture et al) and its all i can think about let alone worry about wether im a tourbuis driver or not. LOL.
can we please drop this subject now - i think we've safely worked out that i'm a numpty and a pillock so lets lock this thread right now mr manager!!!

[John Bell]

Hi Jim, like yourself, I only do what I love as a hobby.
My smallish but professional sound & lighting rigs are only up for small un-signed bands, in venues that have have little or no facilities and I match my rigs to the power available.

I can help a small but seriously dedicated band, put on a really good show for little money, because without me they couldn't afford it. They get a great reaction and appreciation from their following and I get a great buzz out of being part of it all and making it all possible.
The experience I gain from working with my slowly expanding rigs is invaluable to me, but no threat to a professional outfit.

I also work my butt off for charities for free and everyone is a winner in some way.

Keep up the good work and hopefully the top-guns will realize, that you and definitely me, are not a problem. John.

[loudevents]

Hi Jim,

I shall just come back regarding a few of your points.

First of all, please please don't think I was in any way implying that you do a sub-standard job or that you poach other people's work. In fact, I would welcome you on my team, since it seems apparent that you have a passion like myself for this mad industry that we are in.

I however needed to make a very important point that we have all got to be business men (or women) and not only think about our business, but of the industry as a whole.

Best wishes,

Dan

LOUD EVENTS

[Simon Ryder]

Likewise Jim,

From the impression I get of you, you work very hard indeed. I think people will be biting your hand off soon.

All the best,

Simon

[gingerbiscuit69]

my friends tourbus......






doubles up as cheap local van hire for me, and being a non standard extra big engine sprinter with performance susspension and advanced traction control/anti roll, rele flys!!

even better, people let u pull out, so far we've gotten away with multitudes of illegal parking, and taking multiple spaces, its faster than the chavs 1L novas.

its also got a 1.5tons load capacity, so perfect for jamming lots of kit in.

soon to have shower, laminate flooring, fold down double bed, mini kitchen and decent little soundsystem!

[John Bell]

How on earth did someone purchase an ambulance, with the blues and decals still intact. Surely, you could get pulled impersonating an emergency service. Does it still have the sirens?